Blackpool (A)- 1/04/06 League

[sore saddler]

Fortunately I couldn't go yesterday either. It sounds like a complete shambles.

Can't agree with philthesaddler tho. When we got relegated to league 1 the cry was that "it would be good for us and we would be pushing for promotion next season" so I can't help thinking what's different now ?

We need to win games .... that's obvious !
To win games we need to score goals (I don't think draws will be enough to survive !!)
To score goals we need to create chances.

I have said a hundred times before this is not rocket science.

IMHO the only creative player we have on the books is Standing. He MUST play as soon as he is fit !!!

If we are to go down I would rather see us relegated trying to win games than going out with a wimper :(

[Geordiesaddler]

Just had a look at the league table we are 1 point away from safety. Like I say we are not down yet, 1 win and the whole picture changes. We have 3 successive home games coming up, win 2 of those and we will be almost safe. Yesterday has gone, KB needs to change things because there are players out there that don't care. I just hope we can get 1 lucky win from somewhere to kick-start the recovery, because thst's all it might take. Time to step back and take a more balanced view IMO. Rotherham, Hartlepool and all the other teams down there are as bad as us, its just pot luck who stays up I reckon.

[dler]

It may well be pot luck who stays up, but
a) we seem to be completely out of luck, and
b) we don't have a pot to piss in.

We're doomed, doomed I tell ye. Hope not, but I can't see us outperforming four other clubs right now.

[SaigonSaddler]

How much worse can it be watching us in the next division down? It's still against piss poor opposition and at crap grounds isnt it?

Personally I would rather see us pushing for promotion from League 2, than battling against relegation from League 1. Of course there is no garuntee we'll push for promotion if we go down, but I should hope we'd be there or there abouts.

Sometimes when you're in a daze, you need a good slap to bring you to your senses, relegation might be that slap in the face for Bonser. Any criticism of him is brushed aside and ignored, he's untouchable, but even he would have to wonder about his stewardship should we end up in the basement division 2 and a half years after being in the top half of Division 1.

Sorry, I just couldn't disagree with anything more than I do with this. Many people said the same thing when we came down to League One - we'll be beating everyone in sight, it'll be great to see us sitting on top of the league, we'll be promoted by Easter, thank God we won't have to see another relegation fight next season. Well, two seasons on, two more relegation fights have taken place, the present one may well not be successful.

Why would it be different if we went down again?

We'll be playing in front of (even) smaller crowds against (even) worse teams, our (very few) decent players will leave and we'll be left with watching whoever's left, plus whatever other castoffs we can pick up, hopefully managing to avoid relegation for a few years before finally something clicking and us getting back up again. 1990 all over again. There's progress.

The very thought of watching League Two football next season makes me sick. Thanks Merson, you complete and utter joke, and thanks Bonser, if we go down we will be in the same position as the day you took over a decade and a half earlier.

Sorry Phil, that's bobbins. The basement division is really awful and there is certainly no hint that Walsall would be enriched or energised in any way following a term there. There is no hint that we would bounce back within five long seasons of watching absolute pig*h*t. There is every possibility that it would do Walsall lasting harm and maybe, just maybe even kill us off. Going down would be a disaster and I would implore you not to let any misplaced positivity or wishful thinking convince you otherwise.

[SaigonSaddler]

Just had a look at the league table we are 1 point away from safety. Like I say we are not down yet, 1 win and the whole picture changes. We have 3 successive home games coming up, win 2 of those and we will be almost safe. Yesterday has gone, KB needs to change things because there are players out there that don't care. I just hope we can get 1 lucky win from somewhere to kick-start the recovery, because thst's all it might take. Time to step back and take a more balanced view IMO. Rotherham, Hartlepool and all the other teams down there are as bad as us, its just pot luck who stays up I reckon.

2 wins would certainly help, especially for confidence, but enough of the others are showing enough fight to convince me that it will need a steady haul of points to escape. Something I fear we are not capable of at the moment.

[Duke]

Just had a look at the league table we are 1 point away from safety. Like I say we are not down yet, 1 win and the whole picture changes. We have 3 successive home games coming up, win 2 of those and we will be almost safe. Yesterday has gone, KB needs to change things because there are players out there that don't care. I just hope we can get 1 lucky win from somewhere to kick-start the recovery, because thst's all it might take. Time to step back and take a more balanced view IMO. Rotherham, Hartlepool and all the other teams down there are as bad as us, its just pot luck who stays up I reckon.

optimistic as ever Geordie i admire you for that
im tying so hard to remain positive its getting harder to do so
these 3 home games are vital 7 points are the minimum anything less
i feel its all over

[philthesaddler]

He's right though Dave, win two home games and we're in a much stronger position, and theyre winnable games, we just need confidence, and a bit of luck.

People are missing my point about going down. Essentially it's Bonser's fault we're in this mess - all this hate and anger directed towards Merson is all well and good, but the man who employed him for 2 years is the real culprit. My point is that if we go down he will get the stick he truly deserves from all sides - we already know Whalley and board have undermined him this season, the fans are getting unhappy with his stewardship and the squad couldnt care less. Yet if we stay up it will be seen as vindication of JB, he saved us bla bla bla, he kept us up etc.

Big changes need to take place at the very highest level for this club to turn it's fortunes around, and that will not happen if we stay up.

It's nothing to do with wanting to see us in League 2, no body does, and I said there's no garuntee we'd be pushing for promotion, but this club needs a wake up call.

[SaigonSaddler]

He's right though Dave, win two home games and we're in a much stronger position, and theyre winnable games, we just need confidence, and a bit of luck.

People are missing my point about going down. Essentially it's Bonser's fault we're in this mess - all this hate and anger directed towards Merson is all well and good, but the man who employed him for 2 years is the real culprit. My point is that if we go down he will get the stick he truly deserves from all sides - we already know Whalley and board have undermined him this season, the fans are getting unhappy with his stewardship and the squad couldnt care less. Yet if we stay up it will be seen as vindication of JB, he saved us bla bla bla, he kept us up etc.

Big changes need to take place at the very highest level for this club to turn it's fortunes around, and that will not happen if we stay up.

It's nothing to do with wanting to see us in League 2, no body does, and I said there's no garuntee we'd be pushing for promotion, but this club needs a wake up call.

Your right there Phil, Bonser needs a slap.

However, it comes back to the old argument which is that who would replace the man?

[Duke]

He's right though Dave, win two home games and we're in a much stronger position, and theyre winnable games, we just need confidence, and a bit of luck..

agreed

[YGA Saddler]

10 pints and a hangover later I cannot believe what utter trash we endured yesterday. I was nervous before yesterdays game, knowing that if we lost we would be even closer to that trap door. Its a shame the players did not match the supporters yesterday. Yesterday proved to all those "get behind the team" lot that your scenario's are aload of bo//ocks. From the first minute until the 2nd goal we got behind them and they still failed to give their all. How can you with 5/6 loan players that dont care about the club? They will pick up an hefty sum in wages and will be leaving the club in the summer, not caring what division Walsall ARE IN. But even the players that are here beyond May i.e Westwood,Wright,Barrowman dont want to give their all and rightly so got booed off the pitch yesterday.
I threw my walsall shirt onto the pitch yesterday and got restrained from the steward for approaching the guy that was singing bring back Merson. This is unlike me but as with everything else, the tension and emotions are running high and you do things in the heat of the moment.

I hope at 5 o'clock after the Barnsley game (no if but when we are finally down) I hope Jeff, the board and the players look at themselves and realise what a bunch of naieve barclays they have all been and give their all so we can get back up next season. 2 relegations in 3 years, thank you Jeff. Now fudge off.

[Welsh_Saddler]

Well, where do I begin? The only small consolation I can derive from the Blackpool defeat is that we didn't play quite as badly as we did against Bristol City. Yesterday there actually were players who were putting in maximum effort, but it just wasn't done with the requisite amount of skill.

The players who stood out because they did at least seem to care - Dean Keates, Ant Gerrard and Ropes. I have to agree that Gerrard and Roper were partly responsible for Blackpool being allowed to get close to scoring, but if it hadn't been for their sterling efforts throughout the game we'd have been truly hammered - and why? - simple, because no-one else seemed to be interested. Westwood was absolutely awful, and Fox was beaten for pace down the flank so many times I lost count. Mills certainly did look sluggish and overweight. Claridge, for all his experience and knowledge of the game, was frequently caught offside.... I mean, after the first ten minutes, if you know that the linesman is going to flag for anything that looks remotely like offside, then surely you should adapt your positional play to take account of this. Devlin looked useful, one of the very few Saddlers with a bit of pace.

Thew game itself is easily summed up. In the first half, the strong wind was largely in our favour, but we didn't take advantage of it. The wind was so gusty that the sensible thing would have been to try long-range shots to see what effect the wind would have had in deceiving their keeper.... how many shots did we have? Less than one. When the second half started, and Blackpool adopted just such a "shoot on sight" policy, it was only a matter of time before they managed to score. In fact we had a couple of breakaway attacks against the wind in the second half leading to attampts on goal, and a spontaneous chant of "We had a shot, we had a shot" sprang up.

In all fairness we should have conceded three - late in the first half Blackpool had a lovely move down their left-wing, Oakes came out to narrow the angle and the ball was floated over him to the centre of the penalty area, where one of their attackers planted a header firmly in the direction of the goal. All the Blackpool supporters were cheering the inevitable, when the wind held the ball up just like a ping-pong ball on a fountain of water, and Oakes managed to do a smart about-turn and sprint back in time to catch it - humerous at the time, but there again it was 0-0 and that was the way I thought it would continue.

The chants of "What a load of rubbish" at the end were not isolated to a few supporters, and the lack of players trotting over to return any applause spoke volumes. All in all, a very poor performance - I was just a big a critic of Merson as anyone (and still am), but at least we used to put a few passes together. Yesterday we didn't, apart from one session of (I counted) five triangular passes, which got individual cheers merely because of their rarity.

Rant over - perhaps if I stay at home things will improve!!!!!!!

[YGA Saddler]

Well, where do I begin? The only small consolation I can derive from the Blackpool defeat is that we didn't play quite as badly as we did against Bristol City. Yesterday there actually were players who were putting in maximum effort, but it just wasn't done with the requisite amount of skill.

The players who stood out because they did at least seem to care - Dean Keates, Ant Gerrard and Ropes. I have to agree that Gerrard and Roper were partly responsible for Blackpool being allowed to get close to scoring, but if it hadn't been for their sterling efforts throughout the game we'd have been truly hammered - and why? - simple, because no-one else seemed to be interested. Westwood was absolutely awful, and Fox was beaten for pace down the flank so many times I lost count. Mills certainly did look sluggish and overweight. Claridge, for all his experience and knowledge of the game, was frequently caught offside.... I mean, after the first ten minutes, if you know that the linesman is going to flag for anything that looks remotely like offside, then surely you should adapt your positional play to take account of this. Devlin looked useful, one of the very few Saddlers with a bit of pace.

Thew game itself is easily summed up. In the first half, the strong wind was largely in our favour, but we didn't take advantage of it. The wind was so gusty that the sensible thing would have been to try long-range shots to see what effect the wind would have had in deceiving their keeper.... how many shots did we have? Less than one. When the second half started, and Blackpool adopted just such a "shoot on sight" policy, it was only a matter of time before they managed to score. In fact we had a couple of breakaway attacks against the wind in the second half leading to attampts on goal, and a spontaneous chant of "We had a shot, we had a shot" sprang up.

In all fairness we should have conceded three - late in the first half Blackpool had a lovely move down their left-wing, Oakes came out to narrow the angle and the ball was floated over him to the centre of the penalty area, where one of their attackers planted a header firmly in the direction of the goal. All the Blackpool supporters were cheering the inevitable, when the wind held the ball up just like a ping-pong ball on a fountain of water, and Oakes managed to do a smart about-turn and sprint back in time to catch it - humerous at the time, but there again it was 0-0 and that was the way I thought it would continue.

The chants of "What a load of rubbish" at the end were not isolated to a few supporters, and the lack of players trotting over to return any applause spoke volumes. All in all, a very poor performance - I was just a big a critic of Merson as anyone (and still am), but at least we used to put a few passes together. Yesterday we didn't, apart from one session of (I counted) five triangular passes, which got individual cheers merely because of their rarity.

Rant over - perhaps if I stay at home things will improve!!!!!!!

I always back Ant after a game because he gives his all, but yesterday he was just as bad as the others. He was constantly kicking the ball high into the wind and not caring where it went. Also his challenges yesterday, he went in half hearted. He was just to blame as the rest yesterday and I find your comments unjustified.

[Jorge14]

I thought I'd leave it for a while until I posted about yesterday's game...

A shocking performance put in by players with shocking attitudes, and watched by fans who were just, well, shocked.

I'll get the positives out of the way first, because they are most important in the situation we are in. Erm...
Well, Keates tried hard (though he was played on the wing, for some surreal reason). Roper made a couple of superb last ditch tackles. Claridge held the ball up well, but had no support from midfield. Gerrard had the better of his man (for the first 15 minutes). Kiegan Parker didn't get one of our players sent off. It didn't rain - infact, the sun came out.

Negatives. The formation - much too narrow. Wright is finished at the club - all confidence has seeped out of him. He can't trap a ball, and when he does, he is cheered ironically. A Fourth Division/Conference player at best - which is ironic, because those two leagues is exactly where we will be if we turn in any more performances like yesterday.

Osborn and Mills were not the right central midfielder pair to play yesterday. Yes, they worked brilliantly at Tranmere, Southend, Swansea and Colchester - but they were different games. We weren't necessarily chasing wins in those games. Yesterday was must win - and there was no drive from midfield.

Gerrard had his worst game for the football club, and Ian Roper was, in all fairness, destroyed by the 'illegitimate' Kiegan Parker - being particularly lucky not to be sent off for a lunging challenge at Parker after about 50 minutes.
Westwood is not a right back - yes, he'd played well there last week and against Tranmere, but as with Mills, this was a game where we needed to attack, and Westy just wasn't the right option.
Fox doesn't look fit, or he doesn't bothered. It is one or the other. I'd like to think it was the first one, but he hasn't half gone off the boil since he came back from injury.

Claridge was isolated. The only player vaguely on his wavelength was Devlin, who was kept well in check. It is embarrassing that a team mostly assembled by a player of the ability of Paul Merson is so derept of a footballing brain. No one read any of Claridge's through balls - and again I point to the fact that our midfield was not adventurous enough. How we missed Grant Smith - and I hope to God that we can sign him up next season, whatever league we are in.

So what of the rest of the season? With a team full of poor footballers and the attitude of yesterday, then we are certainties for relegation. However, with a team of poor footballers and the attitude of Colchester, Swansea, Southend and Tranmere - then we are still not out of it. The worrying thing now though is, for the first time this season, a victory in our game in hand would not take us out of the bottom four.

The dire performance was summed up by people chanting the names of Jorge Leitao, Andy Rammell and Tony Barras amongst others. What I wouldn't give to have some of their heart in the squad. Not to mention the dancing when we had a shot, and the ironic cheers that greeted Wheel-Barrowman and his failure to jump off the ground once. Andy Rammell to Andy Barrowman in 8 years...shocking.

The biggest credit goes to the groups of fans who were singing Oli's name yesterday. On a day when he was right in the fore-front of our minds, it is a shame that the players didn't show even an ounce of the passion that Oli had for the football club they represent.

[Stu]

I was just a big a critic of Merson as anyone (and still am), but at least we used to put a few passes together.

Sorry, but we stopped putting passes together under Merson weeks ago. That's what infuriated me when Merson said we were trying to play football, as from what I could see, it was aimless long balls to centre halves.

[Manchester Saddler]

What a load of old crap that performance was yesterday. Walsall were clueless and toothless against a pretty crap Blackpool team.

The first half was dire - both teams were awful. In the second half it looked as if the Walsall players had taken out their brains and replaced them with sand from the Golden Mile!!

I ended up with the Blackpool fans to keep the missus happy and I hung my head in shame. In the second half, the Walsall defence was woeful - Westwood had a 'mare! Gerrard was anonymous! Even when the ball was cleared, back it came. Each time Blackpool went forward my head was in my hands praying.

One or two of the folks around sussed out that I was a Walsall fan and offered their sympathies. "We're crap but playing like that you're going down." said one patting my shoulder. I couldn't disagree.

There was no passion, no pride, no tactics, no fight and nothing to give me hope of Walsall staging a recovery and getting out of there. What a shambles!

The only highlight for me was the Walsall faithful cheering the one or two shots we had - much to the amusement of the Blackpool fans. There was nothing else!

What has happened to this club? We are going down and that is so sad to say given the euphoria of the Graydon and Lee regimes.

What has happened to this club?

Why was Merson not sacked at the beginning of the season?

Why was Colin Lee sacked at all?

Does ANYBODY in the chain of command at Walsall give a flying FECK about the state of the club? I fear not!!!

I'm totally and utterly p1ssed off with the whole situation and someone's head must roll!!! :evil:

[Ian Gittins]

Couldn't agree more, Manchester. Just look where we were two years ago and where we are now. The terrace vigilantes who hounded Colin Lee out of this club must be truly delighted.

[Surrey Saddler]

Couldn't agree more, Manchester. Just look where we were two years ago and where we are now. The terrace vigilantes who hounded Colin Lee out of this club must be truly delighted.

Ian, like you, there is nothing more I would like than for Colin Lee to be back at Bescot. BUT, it is a recurring theme of your posts that you persistantly bring up Lee being hounded out by the fans. Yes, I was at Gillingham too and yes he did get mouthfuls of abuse but that is all part and parcel of the game and being in football. Yes, he did let it get to him and got upset about "budding Alex Fergussons" but again if he cannot take abuse from the fans he is surely in the wrong job. And anyway, like me, you have witnessed the foul mouthed behaviour at football matches week in week out. I don't like it except if humour is involved but it is all part of the territory. Frankly, if you can't stand the heat - get out of the kitchen. And apart from all that, Lee didn't leave because he was hounded out by the fans. Other factors were at work.

[Geordiesaddler]

It was a big factor though Surrey, and more importantly the same people hung on Merson's every jibbering lie and helped keep him in a job until the requisite amount of good work was undone and we end up where we are now. Lee was getting out of the kitchen, he was going to move into the boardroom and appoint Bracewell and continue his vision of building and progressing Walsall FC from there. What vision have we now? Colin Lee is the only person in my lifetime to actually tell supporters what his plans were and then set about putting them in place. What did he get in return? "F*ck of dingle...scrape scrape". And we get the fourth division. There can be no argument with history IMO, this club has gone down the pan from the minute CL was sacked.

[YGA Saddler]

FFS, Do we have to keep going on about Colin fudge Lee and how he got away from this pathetic club?!

Lets start talking about the things that matter NOW. Like how the players show no passion, how Jeff Bonser shouldnt be at this club anymore and how we will be league 2 next season.

[Geordiesaddler]

We can talk about whatever we want Kev thanks. If your not interested in the recent history of your club and how it shaped the present then read on.

[Magic Man Fan]

Forget the Bonser stuff, it doesn't matter. He's preparing the club for sale. He's wiped the wage bill to start paying off some of the debts to himself. The sooner that's paid off, the sooner he will go. Forget the land, he'll sell it too. Something is on the horizon whether we go down or not.

Right, Saturday.

Pants. No effort, no guts, no determination. Nothing.

I cannot believe this is the same team I saw at Southend, Swansea and especially Tranmere. I really can't.

There were only a few players to come out with any credit. Devlin and Claridge being two. There were isolated had no service so can be excused. There were a few times when Claridge held the ball up well despite being surrounded by a few Pool players. Exactly what we have been missing.

Forget Wright, get Devlin out wide and Constable up front with Claridge.

Gerrard and Westwood were awful, he just watched as the player ran past him for the second goal. Did anyone see the higlights on Sky yesterday, they showed the effort where Williams missed the open goal with the header. The defending from Westwood was diabolical.

I think talk of two wins from the next three games are optimistic to say the least. There is no unity from all parties at all, all the signs are of a team about to be relegated.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

It was a big factor though Surrey, and more importantly the same people hung on Merson's every jibbering lie and helped keep him in a job until the requisite amount of good work was undone and we end up where we are now. Lee was getting out of the kitchen, he was going to move into the boardroom and appoint Bracewell and continue his vision of building and progressing Walsall FC from there. What vision have we now? Colin Lee is the only person in my lifetime to actually tell supporters what his plans were and then set about putting them in place. What did he get in return? "F*ck of dingle...scrape scrape". And we get the fourth division. There can be no argument with history IMO, this club has gone down the pan from the minute CL was sacked.

I know you are a big CL fan Geordie, and a man who knows what he is talking about, i always read your posts with interest.

Few things i would like to say about Colin Lee, and the whole situation that occured. Well how i see it, and a few things i don't really understand.

Colin Lee came in, and did pretty much a miracle, keeping up the sinking ship that we where, no two ways about it, as much as i loved Ray Graydon, his sacking was inevitable, as we where all but certain to go down, he had clearly tried everything he could, with what he had been given, and it wasn't working. I do however feel that he could have been given just a little bit extra to work with, say for instance the money CL had to bring the 3 players from Birmingham in on loan, i know its just wages, and by the time he was sacked it wouldn't have made any difference to him, as he had clearly lost sight of everything he had built his success on. Maybe if he had the money at Christmas, well who knows.

Then under Lee we made steady progress, while playing attractive attacking football, a bit weak at the back , quite often had to score 3 goals to win a game, but we did progress, and stay up another 2 seasons.

Then Merson came :cry: To me im not sure Colin Lee ever actually wanted him, although he did suck up to him on radio interviews, it seemed CL had to change the whole system to fit Merson in, he played Merson up front an awful lot, which led to alot of him standing on the half way line with his hands on his hips, etc.

We got in Baird from Southampton, and more importantly Gary O'Neil, then we looked like a team, O'Neil gave the legs to our ageing midfield, sadly we lost him due to pompeys massive injury list. Bye Boxing day things where looking superb, 36 points if i remember right, 11th in the league.

From then on we didn't get a single point for nigh on 3 months, now to me that is more than worthy of being sacked a lot lot earlier than he was, i thought the timing of his departure was criminal, i have heard different storys about rifts between Bonsor and Lee, but never really got the real truth i don't think.

Why did we suddenly try and draw 0-0 every game? Even at home to the likes of watford, Burnley etc, when we clearly could have beat them, and ended up losing. That is what sticks in my mind about the whole situation, the dire dross we played, the negative attitude, i am always thankful for what he did, i just wish i could understand why we resorted to the rubbish we played the second half of that season.

Was it simply our team wasn't good enough, or was it CL saying to JB, you want us to just stay up thats what you are getting? Which obviously never happened, but probably would have just if Lee had remained till the end of the season

Hope that makes some kind of sense

As for saturday, no comment, it was so bad i can't talk about it, i'm going to see a different team saturday, i'm going to see Walsall, cos that certainly wasn't Walsall i watched on saturday

[Bernie]

A good post, BS.

I cannot agree that either Ray Graydon or Colin Lee (or even Tommy Coakley) deserved to be sacked just because we were on very bad runs. If you look at Crewe you will see that they have had long term success (by their historic standards) by sticking with a manager who has the ability to do great things for their very small club even when they have terrible seasons.

The next time that Walsall get into the second division - and isn't it looking a long way away - they will be fighting well above their weight level. You simply cannot expect any manager with our resources and chairman to keep us mid-table at that level of football. I think it would have been much better for us to have kept Graydon in 2001, even if that meant we would have been relegated at the end of the season because Graydon knew how to build a team for promotion and the club would have returned to the second division stronger than before.

Walsall should never sack a manager simply because he finds himself with a team not good enough to stay for long periods in the second division. I am not saying we should never sack a manager, but that we not sack one who has proved himself at the club just because his team finds the Championship too difficult.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

It's taken nigh on two years, but it's nice to see a controlled, proper assessment of the Lee and Graydon eras in Division 2.

I am sure you are right, by the way, that Lee never wanted Merson, but had no choice but to take him when offered on a plate. Lee already had the midfield he wanted in place, with the graft of Samways and Corica as the "luxury" player, if needed. The money he was given for Merson's wages would, as it turned out, have been far, far better spent on a quality striker, who could hold the ball up. We might even have been able to persuade Akinbiyi or one of the others we were persuing to come, then. Still, it's all water under the bridge now, more's the pity.

[Geordiesaddler]

Blazing, just to put a bit of flesh on the bones of the second half of the Lee's final season. Lee was expressing an interest in joining the board pre-Christmas, for some reason JB got cold feet and the whole thing went quiet, Lee then begged for more resources as he knew the season was going stale and that the departing GON had been a big factor in our success up to that point, he would also have known Merson's situation and probably that things were not right with Samways. Osborn, Wrack, and Leitao were all playing with long term injuries.

He got peanuts and employed a few monkeys, and his disinterest stemmed from there. Admittedly he then began to behave in a manner that could have seen him sacked. I've heard he didn't bother taking traning (and worse), (although Bracewell was in situ by then). However people forget CL had a spell in hospital in Feb 2003, nothing improved when Bracewell was in charge so I read into that that the players simply had gone mentally (a bit like now), and Lee's disinterest meant that he didn't have the spark to turn things around - although I doubt anyone on here would have thought that on their way out of the Baseball Ground, or if we had managed to deservedly beat Forest earlier in the season.

Imagine Lee's state of mind (remember he isn't a Walsall fan just a professional trying to make a career for himself), he's taken the football club by the balls and taken us from little ol' Walsall to the brink of something better. He has a crop of promising youngsters being carefully nurtured, and he will have known what he potentially had with Fryatt.
He also has a plan to further develop the club under a young manger, his own career and has the means in place to do it. Then JB basically comes along pours cold water on the whole thing and effectively shows his hand ambition wise, ie. "I'm not bothered so long as we scrape survival and I remain in charge". Is it any wonder he went and talked to Plymouth?

Also there are a lot of "I told you sos" in respect of what happened in the second half of that season, well the same people said the same things about CL the previous two seasons and were proved utterly wrong. Eventually if you are predicting, or should I say banging on that Walsall will get relegated from the second tier you will be proved right, just as Bernie mentions in respect of Crewe. Its like saying something like "well its sunny today, but one day soon its going to rain", wow very clever.

People think I regard CL as a football genius, I don't, I just respect what he did for Walsall FC, consider him to be a very good football manager, the man who (temporarily) severed our links with sun-tan-man, much to the benefit of the club, and someone who for the first time in my 30 years of watching us had a proper medium term plan for the sustainable development of the club.

Nothing that has happened since he left has done anything but further convince me that his leaving was a black day for Walsall FC. You can chart our demise almost from the day his plans were knocked back, the day he rumbled JB's level of ambition.

[Duke]

[quote="Geordiesaddler"

Nothing that has happened since he left has done anything but further convince me that his leaving was a black day for Walsall FC. You can chart our demise almost from the day his plans were knocked back, the day he rumbled JB's level of ambition.[/quote]

Totally agree if is a big word but if JB had backed CL after that
new years day win at Cardiff who knows where WFC would be now
that was the chance to establish ourselfs as a championship club
as Geordie says since CL departure its been all down hill

[Exile]

Well said Geordie - I'd only add that there was a story (and that may have been all it was) doing the rounds at that time about CL wanting to invest, and being knocked back by the shifting sands of sale agreements, courtesy of JB.

Lee may not have been universally popular, he may have presided over the 'no shots' game, but he also did us proud until "something" happened between himself and JB. When he left, he had to go, but the paralysis of the chairman beggared belief then, as well as recently with Merson.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Thanks for the feedback, as i said, i wasn't knocking the bloke, Like many others i got frustrated by the run we went on, and the negative way we went about things. I never lost sight of who we are , and just what CL had acheived.

I'm not like some people, i say things as i see them, based on things i know and understand, i Knew Merson was a disaster waiting to happen, and i said so at the time, no matter how bad i felt it was under CL, i knew it would only get worse under Merson, i didn't think it would end quite this bad though.

There was a large majority of walsall fans chanting for him to be manager, i never joined in with this, but when he got the job, what choice do you have but to give him a chance, and for a small time, those few games last season, he even managed to brain wash me to.

Anyway, it seems my original thoughts weren't to far from yours Geordie, i just wasn't sure of the exact goings on.

[Geordiesaddler]

Just to add one minor point, although I think its important in the context of Lee's last game, ie. the Gillingham debacle in so much that it shows what a shambles JB made of things. Paul Ritchie was not allowed to play in that game, at the time our most important game of the season - Paul Ritchie being of course just about the best player at the club, he was then allowed to play, and score the winning goal, in Merson's failed attempt to keep us up. I was amazed at the time JB didn't get nuch stick for this. What a shambles, JB effectively was as good as picking the team by Gillingham, so how anyone can blame Lee for talking to Plymouth is beyond me, the whole thing was well gone by then and the Plymouth talks were just JB's excuse for doing what he should have done as soon as his professional relationship with Lee effectively ended, back in December/January.

However, JB didn't he bottled it to avoid paying excessive compensation and because it would have revealed to everyone what was really going on at the club. In short he wanted his cake, and to eat it and thought we would muddle through until the end of the season when he could arrange a nice muddled parting of the ways, conducted no doubt in the usual fog of secrecy.

Effectively it was Lee's ambitious nature that rocked the boat in more ways than one and forced the situation.

I often wonder (although we could have lost 10 nil on the day) if Ritchie had played that day would the score have been less? Their 3rd goal was a last minute header from Danny Spiller, a right short-arse, take that out of the equation and we would have stayed up by 1 goal!!!

[Magic Man Fan]

Just to add one minor point, although I think its important in the context of Lee's last game, ie. the Gillingham debacle in so much that it shows what a shambles JB made of things. Paul Ritchie was not allowed to play in that game, at the time our most important game of the season - Paul Ritchie being of course just about the best player at the club, he was then allowed to play, and score the winning goal, in Merson's failed attempt to keep us up. I was amazed at the time JB didn't get nuch stick for this. What a shambles, JB effectively was as good as picking the team by Gillingham, so how anyone can blame Lee for talking to Plymouth is beyond me, the whole thing was well gone by then and the Plymouth talks were just JB's excuse for doing what he should have done as soon as his professional relationship with Lee effectively ended, back in December/January.

However, JB didn't he bottled it to avoid paying excessive compensation and because it would have revealed to everyone what was really going on at the club. In short he wanted his cake, and to eat it and thought we would muddle through until the end of the season when he could arrange a nice muddled parting of the ways, conducted no doubt in the usual fog of secrecy.

Effectively it was Lee's ambitious nature that rocked the boat in more ways than one and forced the situation.

I often wonder (although we could have lost 10 nil on the day) if Ritchie had played that day would the score have been less? Their 3rd goal was a last minute header from Danny Spiller, a right short-arse, take that out of the equation and we would have stayed up by 1 goal!!!

I'm sure we would have Geordie. The performance was terrible that day. The players would have known the situation with Ritchie, he wasn't shy in criticising the club in public, let alone to the players. All this happened because when he signed it was agreed if we played a certain nymber of games his wage would go up £2k a week and Bonser didn't want to pay it.

Whether it was that or because the players knew Lee was going to talk to Plymouth, they just didn't perform that day, Wacka apart but I still think Ritchie was the kind of character to get them all going and get a result.