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Scunthorpe (H) 11 February 2006 - League

Reports and reaction from the 2005-06 season as Walsall finished 24th (R) in League 1
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Stu
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:51 pm

Salop Saddler wrote:No, I don't Stu. We are exactly where we deserve to be based on the thirty one games we've played so far this season.


Don't get me wrong, we are fully where we deserve top be. That cannot be questioned, after 31 matches the league table doesn't lie.

However the point I was trying to make is that these players, playing to their full potential, are far better than 20th spot after 31 matches.

These players have under-performed massively, I think every single Walsall fan would admit that, as the players and Merson certainly did.

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Salop Saddler
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:25 pm

I understand totally what you're saying Stu, and it goes without saying that currently, no matter how it's dressed up, the squad is an unbalanced shambles. But to be honest, and it's only my opinion, I haven't seen any evidance as of yet this season to suggest that this squad, as a whole, is anything other than mediocre. The blame for that lies at the feet of one person, and he's now gone.

I'm of the strong opinion that when a club brings in a new player to replace an existing one, the general idea is for the new player to be better than the one you're looking to replace. So when I look back (something I hate doing btw) at the squad available less than two years ago and compare that with the current batch, I reckon there's been a negation of duty somewhere down the line.

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Stu
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:35 pm

Exactly, you say this squad is "mediocre" yet at they're moment they look piss poor. And to be honest, "mediocre" in this division means play off candidates.

I don't think they're world beaters, but by no means are they a 20th placed team based on ability.

Because of that, I'm sure if we get the right bloke we'll pull away quickly with a run of 3/4 positive results.

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Salop Saddler
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:50 pm

I can’t equate mediocrity to success at any level to be honest with you, but I hear what you’re saying.

For what it’s worth, I really do believe that the man who may have gone a long way in getting us out of the mess we find ourselves at the moment could have been Steve Staunton, if, of course Bonser would have acted sooner. Agreed, he was shot as a player, but I do believe he understands the ‘science’ of the game far better than our previous incumbent (could anyone have known less ?!?), and better than many would give him credit for.

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Stu
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:10 am

Salop Saddler wrote:I can’t equate mediocrity to success at any level to be honest with you, but I hear what you’re saying.

For what it’s worth, I really do believe that the man who may have gone a long way in getting us out of the mess we find ourselves at the moment could have been Steve Staunton, if, of course Bonser would have acted sooner. Agreed, he was shot as a player, but I do believe he understands the ‘science’ of the game far better than our previous incumbent (could anyone have known less ?!?), and better than many would give him credit for.


I'd be inclined to agree on Staunton, the FAI obviously saw something in him worth pursuing.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:10 am

Bristol Fan wrote:Merson's gone, but I can't honestly say we saw an improved performance. Thought we were rather fortunate to scrape a point and Scunthorpe were the better team.

Same old story at the back, two very sloppy goals to concede. The ref had a poor game but you can't blame him or their players for carrying on after Timm pulled up, it would be rare to see anything else given the position they found themselves in. If it had been the other way round and one of our players had kicked the ball into touch, I'd have been very disappointing.

Couldn't see what Devlin did, but given the way their player looked as he came off, he clearly did elbow him, so the only question is intent. Very stupid thing to do if he did it deliberately. (He didn't admit doing it as he came off, by the way, he was saying that their player had elbowed him as well.) However, we played our best stuff after going down to ten men.

Merson's legacy meant that Wright had to play at left back, which caused us problems. I'd have swapped him and Smith round, since Smith did nothing of interest on the wing and Wright's pace would have been more effective. Really hope that Fox returns on Tuesday - anyone know the extent of his injury?

Both goals were excellent (Merson would have called them "worldys"), was frankly amazed to see Barrowman take his so well, given that he offered nothing beforehand. What's happened to Constable?

Playing Keates and Osborn together in the middle didn't work, which is a pity since Osborn's probably been my player of the season and Keates seems to be a must-pick, so one of them will have to miss out.

Mills played well at the back. Seems to combine the good points of Westwood (ie control of the ball and distribution) without the bad (ie he can head the ball and win tackles). Will be difficult to know what to do on Tuesday with Gerrard available again. It would be a brave decision to leave him out, but equally brave to drop either Roper (who admittedly wasn't at his best) or Mills.

A valuable point, but I can't help but wonder where the six wins we probably need to stay up are going to come from. Bristol and Swindon are both in the relegation zone but only one point behind us and I can't see either of them going down - so there's a hell of a lot for the new manager to do.


Tend to agree, except I thought there was an improvement, in that we were working harder, especially when not in possession and defedning from the front again. Both goals, however, were sloppy, as you say, and came from central midfield not givig the cover it should.

As for Tuesday, for me, the back four, assuming Fox fit, would be Mills, Gerrard, Roper, Fox, as Mills can play right back too. Midfield would then be Wright, Keates, Smith, Demontagnac and whoever you like up front, as they are all much of a muchness. The only problem would be the lack of right footed players in midfield (oh the irony!)

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Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:46 am

The players are lacking confidence thats for sure and understandable
but there was a fighting spirit that we will need more of in games to come
mark wright was like a fish out of water the lad will never be a full back
we need fox back asap some fans by me were having a go at him thats one thing we dont need at this time their second goal was a joke i could nt
see any foul which lead to the free kick then the defensive wall fell apart far to easily mills and keates both outstanding as was roper as usually
all in all 2-1 down one sent off and a point gained the whole place needs a massive lift right now lets our new manager bring that because we are now in a relegation battle and we all know who is to blame for that

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Mike T.
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:14 am

Agree with most of the reviews and comments above. It felt like a win at the end after playing with 10 men for the last 20 mins or so. It seemed to me Scunthorpe were looking to even things up after the Osborn incident at their place earlier in the season. The full back collapsed in a heap in front of me in the Banks stand and then got up smiling once the ref gave them a free kick. Then the centre half falls over Osborne's foot like he has been shot and both of them are booked.
I haven't seen the Devlin incident again but I guess it comes down to interpretation of intent - cant deny there was contact by the blood on the guy's face.

Andrew Barrowman was just starting to get some flak from the Banks stand when that goal went in. It was a very mixed performance - I dont think he won the ball in the air once in the entire match but he did manage to hold it up quite well IF it was played to him at the right height and obviously took the goal well. He did seem isolated at times and I wondered if he could play up front with Constable. Whatever the injury with Timm, we obviously are in a right old scrap now without much confidence on the ball and I dont think thats the place for Timm to flourish.

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Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:52 am

I am trying to be positive but it is very difficult after yesterday.

New man running the team - same problems. People playing out of position, low levels of confidence, lack of fitness.
Until we get the right people playing in the right positions, improve fitness levels and organisation (which is nothing to do with ability !!) we will continue to struggle.

Oh for a manager who can identify a players best position (which might be different from where the player thinks he should play) and actually coach the players.
Good managers always have organised and disciplined teams regardless of the ability of the individual players. If the new man can't do that then we are clearly doomed.

Merson had no idea what the problems were otherwise he wouldn't have traded an adequate bunch of midfield players for an increasing larger bunch of adequate midfield players - instead of bringing in someone who could hold the ball up front, some more defenders and someone who could organise the defence.

With the fixture list we have if we don't get the right man in quickly the dreaded "r" word is almost inevitable.

As for Devlin - ludicrous !! Should not play for us again. Stupid and vicious and not what we need in our current situation

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:02 am

Good summing up, Soresaddler, although I think there are some positives in that we were working harder. As for Mike T, have a look at the incident on TV - Devlin was disgraceful. A deliberate, calcualted elbow straight in the face.

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Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:22 am

Good shout Neil having Mills at right back. Although Pead works hard, his distribution when he has possession is absolutley appalling. Time & time again he gives aimless ball forward with no regard for where our forwards might be.
Thought that Roper & Mills were superb yesterday. I dont remember Roper being beaten in the air all game, and at least Mills tried to "play" and not just hoof the ball out of sight.
Devlin - well i wasnt sure why we signed him (other to give him a nice retirement present). Shouldnt wear the shirt again after yesterday. I agree that their player went down like he had been hit by a sniper, only to jump back up immediately after the card had been shown, but the elbow looked deliberate to me, and there's no place for that in a relegation battle.

Up the Saddlers

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Duke
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:24 am

a back four of

MILLS GERRARD ROPER FOX sounds good to me

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Stu
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 pm

I don't think Pead's distribution is that bad, bear in mind that he had nobody in front of him on the right to give the ball to as Devlin was useless and James just didn't seem interested.

Ironically though, it was also Pead's perfectly measured ball over the top that led to our 2nd equaliser.

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Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:31 pm

Just looking at the Sunday Mercury, they pick a team of the week and both James and Barrowman are in it?
Not sure if it was for last week or this week but either way they are having a laugh.
Do not know who picks this team or on what criteria they use but seems way off the mark.
Looks like they must pick names out of a hat.

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Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:59 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:As for Tuesday, for me, the back four, assuming Fox fit, would be Mills, Gerrard, Roper, Fox, as Mills can play right back too. Midfield would then be Wright, Keates, Smith, Demontagnac and whoever you like up front, as they are all much of a muchness. The only problem would be the lack of right footed players in midfield (oh the irony!)


Agree with that. Good shout on Mills at right back, hadn't considered that.

Up front I'd go with Barrowman and Constable. Go for broke!

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Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:29 pm

Barrowman's goal had shades of Fryatt...the well timed run, and the sublime finish. He showed plenty of promise, and I was surprised that he started getting stick.

All in all, a hard worked 2-2 draw, as I predicted! :wink: However, we've got to build on this, and it is imperative that we get some sort of result down at Colchester on Tuesday night. Confidence needs to be rebuilt, but at least there are positives to take from yesterday.

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Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:33 pm

The worry for me is that we won't score enough goals. Barrowman was far too isolated for most of the game yesterday, which didn't help his cause. I think it would be a bit harsh to drop Pead, but having said that, it will be harsh if one of Gerrard, Roper or Mills has to sit on the bench - perhaps the Colchester game is a good time to give 3-5-2/5-3-2 a try?
I'd like to see James on the right of midfield but after yesterday, I'm not sure if he deserves to be picked for the next game.
I can see Barrowman and Nicholls being a decent partnership up front, but it's probably a bit too risky considering the situation we find ourselves in. I agree with those who have said that Keates and Osborn are too similar to be playing together in midfield. Halsall coud have a selection headache in midfield on Tuesday.

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Surrey Saddler
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:12 pm

Just back after a weekend in Walsall. Cannot say I saw any improvement against Scunthorpe. True we fought well after the sending off but throughout we seemed incapable of stringing any decent moves together and although a weak side, Scunthorpe were the better side. I find I have little or no enthusiasm for football these days - probably something to do with going to Brentford.

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Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:49 am

Jorge14 wrote:Barrowman's goal had shades of Fryatt...the well timed run, and the sublime finish. He showed plenty of promise, and I was surprised that he started getting stick


I'm not surprised, we have many very thick fans

Probably the same bunch who gave Fryatt grief

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sid swifty
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Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:26 am

saddlerken wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:Barrowman's goal had shades of Fryatt...the well timed run, and the sublime finish. He showed plenty of promise, and I was surprised that he started getting stick


I'm not surprised, we have many very thick fans

Probably the same bunch who gave Fryatt grief
i liked the guy...as i said in this thread already...he could have been the making of matty fryatt...the perfect foyle...a real old fashioned center forward...he and keates were the only players who were 100% up for it in my opinion.

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sid swifty
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Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:40 am

WFC_Rob wrote:The worry for me is that we won't score enough goals. Barrowman was far too isolated for most of the game yesterday, which didn't help his cause. I think it would be a bit harsh to drop Pead, but having said that, it will be harsh if one of Gerrard, Roper or Mills has to sit on the bench - perhaps the Colchester game is a good time to give 3-5-2/5-3-2 a try?
I'd like to see James on the right of midfield but after yesterday, I'm not sure if he deserves to be picked for the next game.
I can see Barrowman and Nicholls being a decent partnership up front, but it's probably a bit too risky considering the situation we find ourselves in. I agree with those who have said that Keates and Osborn are too similar to be playing together in midfield. Halsall coud have a selection headache in midfield on Tuesday.
I agree with those who have said that Keates and Osborn are too similar to be playing together in midfield
come off it rob...how you can say they are similer...?osborn has only got the games he has for walsall because merson obviously liked him enough to make him coach...and you see him making all the basic mistakes that a yts player would make...where as keates is just a whirlwind...he does'nt stop to take a breath...and does something that osborn as a coach or player could never do...force players round him to start playing...both by example and authority as a captain.

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