Oldham (A) - 6th December 2005 - League

[Stu]

Maybe thats why Geoff Dubya Bonser wants to keep the land that the ground is built on?

Also thinking of it, another defeat tonight and we'll have to give tickets away for the Hartlepool home match. Last Saturday before Xmas is notoriously low anyway, and with attendances falling faster than Jodie Marsh's knickers, we'll be struggling to hit 4500 as the Monkey hangers bring 2 men and a whippett.

[Geordiesaddler]

Good to hear the fans getting plenty of stick on WM, of course it's all our fault. We just need to stop....... ds

[Magic Man Fan]

Very disappointing. And not good enough. Take the cup wins out of the equation and are we really any further forward?

No. Which is why many of us were waiting for tonights game and Forest before we get carried away.

Look at the teams we've beaten in that run Rotherham and Gillingham, then look where they are in the table.

Then look at the teams we've lost to away. MK Dons and Oldham and where they are in the table.

All the evidence adds up to a mid table position.

EDIT - And that is taking Fryatt's goals into the equation. What happens if he goes in Jan? Where will be then? :(

Ha ha ha - The last prat on has said Merson should get Harry Redknapp to come and manage us. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Geordiesaddler]

Is what I'm listening to on WM just some PR bloke ringing up putting on different voices? It's unbe-firkin-lievable.

[Stu]

Look at the teams we've beaten in that run Rotherham and Gillingham, then look where they are in the table.
.

What's worse, we're now only 3pts ahead of Gillingham and they were absolutely diabolical.

[BathSaddler]

Is what I'm listening to on WM just some PR bloke ringing up putting on different voices? It's unbe-firkin-lievable.

Particularly the one who suggested Harry Redknapp may come and help him out! But that's Planet Merson for you...

[tinned]

I agree with Stu. I didn't want to pour too much cold water on the happy clappers fire, but I have been far from impressed with our recent home performances. I've gone to work on the Monday's and people have said "Good result for you lot", to whih I've replied "Emphasis on the RESULT". There's been nothing to get too excited about. Perhaps with a an away win tonight I may have thought "Fair enough, results are more important than performances", but this shows we are just no nearer a ply-off push than we was 2 months ago.

I think Merson is here to stay (in the medium term at least) so get yourselves ready for the excitment that is two or three years bobbing along in mid table, lads. Get's the pulse racing, don't it ? :roll:

[Geordiesaddler]

If the play-offs are to remain even-pie-in-the-sky-cross-your-fingers-and hope-to-die we need 3 points on Saturday. Coming up to half-way and another defeat or even a draw leaves us far too much to do realistically in terms of a consistent run. I think we will oscillate between 12th and 14th all season and maybe get a bit further in one or both of the cups at best.
Which would certainly be very welcome. Not moaning here, I just don't see us winning enough away, or losing enough at home for any other outcome.

[Ace]

bobbing along in mid table

Make that lower-mid table :roll:

[Magic Man Fan]

This was THE game where it all could have been turned round. After confidence boosting wins at home, even if the performances weren't good, it was a good chance to go to a club struggling and start picking up points on the road.

It hasn't happened and I've got no reason to think it will at all this season or ever under Merson.

I'd like to think that our record against Forest gives us a chance on Saturday but records seem to go out of the window under Merson, like the Port Vale one and not forgetting that while struggling Forest are picking up most points at home. Why should we change that with our away form?

[Exile]

gins all out now. :shock:

Who is Ginsall, and why is it his fault?

[andy__vh]

[quote="Magic Man Fan"] After confidence boosting wins at home, even if the performances weren't good, it was a good chance to go to a club struggling and start picking up points on the road.[quote]

yes 4 games without losing (now 5 for Oldham) is really struggling!!!? they are picking themselves up Oldham. I thought a win was optimistic tonight i would have been well happy with a draw. But yes away points need to be picked up. We really miss JJ and the 4-5-1 that suited our personnel so so well!

[derbysaddler]

gins all out now. :shock:

Who is Ginsall, and why is it his fault?

*hic. *

bugger.

[Geordiesaddler]

Well we'll see. I wouldn't be surprised to see us win at Forest or somewhere away soon, because we have some decent players who will eventually dig out a win somewhere. My abiding fear (taking the glass half-empty stance) is that we will endure a shock home defeat on the back of maybe a couple of blank away trips. This in turn will send us sailing too close to comfort at the bottom, resulting in a panic-stricken "fit" again Merse recalling himself to the team during Christmas and January - traditionally a time when we struggle anyhow.
That more than any reason is why I'd like to see us get a win at Forest, just to get some rainy-day points in the bag before Merson loses it over the Christmas hols.

[Magic Man Fan]

After confidence boosting wins at home, even if the performances weren't good, it was a good chance to go to a club struggling and start picking up points on the road.

yes 4 wins without losing is really struggling. they are picking themselves up Oldham. I thought a win was optimistic tonight i would have been well happy with a draw. But yes away points need to be picked up. We really miss JJ and the 4-5-1 that suited our personnel so so well!

I would also have been happy with a point. Guess what we didn't get a point. Who said I was expecting us to win?

Stop making excuses. It's got f all to do with JJ. We can beat these teams at home and with the right mental attitude it should be the same away.

[stig231]

After listening to the WM commentary , they could have played a tape of any one of 10-15 away games from this season or last.
1st Half - Start ok , decent possession , not much goal threat , lapse of concentration/defensive error , opposition score.

2nd Half - Start ok again , inevitable substitution and change (or changes) of formation , decent possession , still not much goal threat , another lapse , that'll be 2-0 then. Mini revival as home team relax a bit , score , put jittery home team under a bit of pressure until final whistle.

Cue commentators saying we could have got something , we were the better team etc etc.

Does anybody really expect anything more from our away games nowadays?

[Exile]

How many formations did we get through tonight?

Was it 4-5-1, then 4-4-2, followed by a swift stab at 3-5-2 and culminating in an 0-0-10?

It is alarming that we can't win away. If I were clapping happily, I'd be thinking heck, we can't win 'em all and we've had a really good run, which was bound to end somewhere. As I'm not, I'm thinking that we've beaten the really mediocre teams and come undone against the bog-standard. Again.

There's no oil under Bescot, btw, just sh*t, given that the site was a sewage works.

[Magic Man Fan]

How many formations did we get through tonight?

Was it 4-5-1, then 4-4-2, followed by a swift stab at 3-5-2 and culminating in an 0-0-10?

Jorge was backwards and forwards between midfield and up front more than woman trying to reverse park.

Stability is needed away from home for clean sheets which is all we need to start getting points away from home. Forget JJ, we're not having problems scoring, its clean sheets that we need to sort out which would have meant we'd have won our last 3 away games.

[WFC_Rob]

After confidence boosting wins at home, even if the performances weren't good, it was a good chance to go to a club struggling and start picking up points on the road.

yes 4 wins without losing is really struggling. they are picking themselves up Oldham. I thought a win was optimistic tonight i would have been well happy with a draw. But yes away points need to be picked up. We really miss JJ and the 4-5-1 that suited our personnel so so well!

I would also have been happy with a point. Guess what we didn't get a point. Who said I was expecting us to win?

Stop making excuses. It's got f all to do with JJ. We can beat these teams at home and with the right mental attitude it should be the same away.

Whilst it's nothing to do with JJ in particular, I think andy has a point. The problem is, Fryatt isn't a striker who can play up front on his own. For a striker to be able to play on his own, he needs to be either particularly good in the air or particularly quick. Unfortunately, Fryatt is neither which means we do not have an "out ball" to relieve some pressure off the defence. When Fryatt plays on his own, we are constantly under pressure as the ball keeps coming back.

I may be taking the "glass half full" stance, but IF we win at Forest, everyone will be coming on here saying we can still make the play-offs - just like they were before todays game. Having said that, our recent record against Forest is too good to be true, and I expect us to come away with nothing.

[Magic Man Fan]

I fully understand your point Rob which is why I don't think Birch should have gone because he could do that for us and gave us an outlet. Having said that Fryatt played up front on his own brilliantly for England in the Summer because he was in the hands of coaches who know what they're doing.

The point would be more valid if we were struggling to score but we're not.

Sort the defence out, keep clean sheets like we did uneder Graydon, we'd have 9 points from the last three away games and we'd be in the play off places.

[andy__vh]

got quite alot to do with JJ indirectly. We spent all summer expecting him to sign only to lose out on his signiture. this lead us with little time to sort out a replacement so we ended up signing crappy larossa as a late rushed panic buy. So we swoped a vital component for a bit part player.

We havent replaced the goals that JJ would have scored and assisted and we now rely on Fryatt almost solely for goals. JJ was a striker that fitted the 4-5-1, he gave us the option. Fryatt tries but is not a performer in this formation, not his fault. This takes the 4-5-1 option out of consideration so we go 4-4-2 but away from home this leads to us conceeding silly away goals. At home 4-4-2 has always suited us, away it leaves us vunerable.

[andy__vh]

Sort the defence out, keep clean sheets like we did uneder Graydon, we'd have 9 points from the last three away games and we'd be in the play off places.

We wouldnt as if we were doing that he would never have been sacked. And if we did keep the clean sheets we wouldnt have got the golas in his later months.

Anyway what a silly comment keep clean sheets and we would get a result! state the obvious hey. easier said than done

[Magic Man Fan]

Read what I've put above. Which answers your points.

And to add to that why do we need to consider playing 4-5-1 away when we're winning games at home playing 4-4-2?

Does everybody want us to play 4-5-1 because it's en vogue?

We kept clean sheets, week in week out playing 4-4-2 under Graydon and now we have Daryl Taylor and Ishmel fit we have the perfect players for a 4-4-2.

Why treat the same teams we beat at home any differently just because we're away? By doing that Merson is sending out negative signals to the players by saying we are fearing them.

I said it last week in a long post. All the best managers choose the formation they want to play then get the players suitable to play that same formation week in, week out. If managers are restricted by finances like you could argue that we are then the best managers look at the players they have available then they pick the best formation to suit those players and stick to it!

The best managers do NOT change formation 2/3 times during a game which we have done in each of the last three games. It just makes excuses for the players.

[Magic Man Fan]

Sort the defence out, keep clean sheets like we did uneder Graydon, we'd have 9 points from the last three away games and we'd be in the play off places.

We wouldnt as if we were doing that he would never have been sacked. And if we did keep the clean sheets we wouldnt have got the golas in his later months.

Anyway what a silly comment keep clean sheets and we would get a result! state the obvious hey. easier said than done

Err, I'm talking about the Graydon that got us promoted from this division twice. I'm not talking about trying to keep clean sheets in a much tougher division against teams costing millions of pounds.

Why is it a silly comment and easier said than done to keep clean sheets? Other managers manage to do it.

STOP MAKING EXCUSES.

[WFC_Rob]

In theory, a 4-4-2 should work just as well away as it does at home, but in practice, this rarely happens. When a team plays at home, the majority of fans are there to support & encourage them. Add this to the fact that they are more used to the pitch, the atmosphere and the surroundings. However psychological this may be, it has to be the case, or why is it that historically the majority of teams have a better home record than their away record?
I don't think we play 4-5-1 because Mr. Mourinho plays it and gets results, just that with the midfielders we have, we should be able to beat the oppositions midfield due to the fact that they are likely to have 4 in midfield and we have 5.

[Stu]

Merse doesn't help himself with the constant tinkering though does he.

Back to 4-5-1 tonight, then switched to 4-4-2 when we went a goal down.

Is it too much to ask to pick 1 formation, 11 players and leave them alone for 4/5/6 games.

[WFC_Rob]

Back to 4-5-1 tonight, then switched to 4-4-2 when we went a goal down.

If he knew how the game was going to pan out, I'm sure he would pick the team and formation accordingly.

[Stu]

But why change it in the first place, thats the question. He doesn't need to and if you think it helps to constantly change the formation your living in cuckoo land.

Can you name a succesful team that changes formation every other week? I can't.

[WFC_Rob]

Can you name a succesful team that changes formation every other week? I can't.

Ok, you have a point there. I'm not making excuses for tonight's game, but injuries have occurred at awkward times during the season. Suspensions (e.g. Craig Pead) have also occurred, although that's the players' fault.

[tinned]

Back to 4-5-1 tonight, then switched to 4-4-2 when we went a goal down.

If he knew how the game was going to pan out, I'm sure he would pick the team and formation accordingly.

He was changing the formation against Rotherham continuously. How did that game pan out that required Merson to tinker ?

Face it, he tries to constantly justify his own job by "making tactical adjustments". Leave it alone Merson and let the players do the job they're out on the pitch for.