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MK Dons (A) - League 19th November 2005

Reports and reaction from the 2005-06 season as Walsall finished 24th (R) in League 1
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sj
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Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:44 pm

I know Mr poo it does sound a tad odd-- but life is indeed stanger than fiction. I hope they have realy bad heads this morning, dick-heads :twisted:

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YGA Saddler
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Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:01 pm

The only certain thing, Walsall's consistent inconsistency.

I came home from the match and couldnt be arsed to share my view. Probably because I was a little peed off how we actually lost that game.Before anyone starts slagging Merse off for yesterdays defeat just try looking at the misses from Ropes & Jorge plus the clanger from "cheese burger". How can a manager take the blame for a defeat when at 1-1 you miss two guilt edged chances and then for their winner your keeper drops an howler like that? I dont like Merse but other than the fact Gerrard played instead of Krissy Taylor I dont think he can be blamed for our defeat.

I am fed up NOW. Another season of mid-table mediocrity. Lets just hope we get a decent run in the cup, or this could be just as wasteful as last season.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:03 pm

DAVEDEAN wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
DAVEDEAN wrote:
Phil_G wrote:I think that's his point Dave.

Jorge runs a round a lot, Fryatt doesn't. Matty's scored 8 goals, Leitao's got 4.


how many pens


I'm not Fryatt's biggest fan either Dave but that doesn't make Jorge any better. At least Fryatt has won most of the penalties he's scored. He does that by getting in scoring positions. I'd rather have two strikers on 8 goals whether they're from penalties or not.

A strikers job is to score or sets up lots of goals which I'm afraid Jorge doesn't do enough of and presumable why Merson is turning him into a midfielder. While we lack a lot or Jorge's workrate throughout the team it doesn't mean he's doing his job. I'd rather have a lazy b@stard that scores 20+ goals a season.



if Fryatt scores over 20 goals this season I'll do an AC cactus party piece


It might be difficult to find out if someone is daft enough to sign him on recent performances but he's almost halfway there without playing well and playing alongside a big bloke like Constable could do him the world of good.

I'll be printing this off and waiting to remind you! :wink:

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:38 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
DAVEDEAN wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
DAVEDEAN wrote:
Phil_G wrote:I think that's his point Dave.

Jorge runs a round a lot, Fryatt doesn't. Matty's scored 8 goals, Leitao's got 4.


how many pens


I'm not Fryatt's biggest fan either Dave but that doesn't make Jorge any better. At least Fryatt has won most of the penalties he's scored. He does that by getting in scoring positions. I'd rather have two strikers on 8 goals whether they're from penalties or not.

A strikers job is to score or sets up lots of goals which I'm afraid Jorge doesn't do enough of and presumable why Merson is turning him into a midfielder. While we lack a lot or Jorge's workrate throughout the team it doesn't mean he's doing his job. I'd rather have a lazy b@stard that scores 20+ goals a season.



another player for fryatt not to pass to.......seriously though MMF i hope you are right


if Fryatt scores over 20 goals this season I'll do an AC cactus party piece


It might be difficult to find out if someone is daft enough to sign him on recent performances but he's almost halfway there without playing well and playing alongside a big bloke like Constable could do him the world of good.

I'll be printing this off and waiting to remind you! :wink:

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:38 pm

wfc_2uk wrote:The only certain thing, Walsall's consistent inconsistency.

I came home from the match and couldnt be arsed to share my view. Probably because I was a little peed off how we actually lost that game.Before anyone starts slagging Merse off for yesterdays defeat just try looking at the misses from Ropes & Jorge plus the clanger from "cheese burger". How can a manager take the blame for a defeat when at 1-1 you miss two guilt edged chances and then for their winner your keeper drops an howler like that? I dont like Merse but other than the fact Gerrard played instead of Krissy Taylor I dont think he can be blamed for our defeat.

I am fed up NOW. Another season of mid-table mediocrity. Lets just hope we get a decent run in the cup, or this could be just as wasteful as last season.


Whilst I'd agree in principle, it still begs the question of why we kicked off with 5 centre halves on the pitch and the lack of stability is still there for all to see.

By my reckoning, that was our 4th formation of the season. And I still can't see the point in playing 5-4-1 against a team in the relegation zone, I don't buy this crap about false positions and combatting McLeod and Platt (espeically as McLeod went off mid way through the first half).

He has to pick 1 formation and keep with it. We've played 3 different formations in the last 3 matches.

3-5-2 vs Merthyr
4-4-2 vs Gillingham
5-4-1 vs MK Dons.

That is ridiculous.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:40 pm

another player for fryatt not to pass to........seriously though MMF i hope you are right

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:48 pm

It's Stu who's right here. Fryatt playing as the lone striker in a 5 4 1 or 4 5 1? Are you having a laugh? Only a complete idiot would think he's the right sort of player for . . . . . . . . .


I'll get me coat.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:07 pm

Stu wrote:
wfc_2uk wrote:The only certain thing, Walsall's consistent inconsistency.

I came home from the match and couldnt be arsed to share my view. Probably because I was a little peed off how we actually lost that game.Before anyone starts slagging Merse off for yesterdays defeat just try looking at the misses from Ropes & Jorge plus the clanger from "cheese burger". How can a manager take the blame for a defeat when at 1-1 you miss two guilt edged chances and then for their winner your keeper drops an howler like that? I dont like Merse but other than the fact Gerrard played instead of Krissy Taylor I dont think he can be blamed for our defeat.

I am fed up NOW. Another season of mid-table medioagree in principle, it still begs the question of why we kicked off with 5 centre halves on the pitch and the lack of stability is still there for all to see.

By my reckoning, that was our 4th formation of the season. And I still can't see the point in playing 5-4-1 against a team in the relegation zone, I don't buy this crap about false positions and combatting McLeod and Platt (espeically as McLeod went off mid way through the first half).

He has to pick 1 formation and keep with it. We've played 3 different formations in the last 3 matches.
crity. Lets just hope we get a decent run in the cup, or this could be just as wasteful as last season.


Whilst I'd
3-5-2 vs Merthyr
4-4-2 vs Gillingham
5-4-1 vs MK Dons.

That is ridiculous.


I aint disagreeing with what your saying Stu. But Mcleod is wanted by Wolves, Platt is wanted by Sheff Wed. MK Dons have lost only once in 12 games. With our injuries I think we needed to be cautious going into the game and we very nearly got a point.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:13 pm

wfc, cautious would have been 4 5 1. 5 4 1 was being paranoid.

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Magic Man Fan
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Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:49 pm

But wfc do you not agree that being cautious but still conceding 2 goals is absolutely rubbish?

Merson just doesn't know what it takes to keep clean sheets, which ultimately win games. Forget Jorge and Roper's misses, you're just falling for Merson's spiel. If you keep clean sheets, you pick up points. If Merson can't get them organised and play a settled defence then that's his problem.

That's why Graydon was so rigid with his 4-4-2 formation. He picked the same defence wherever possible so all players know their role and don't have an excuse if things go wrong because every one of them knew their role. If someone was injured then he'd have a spare player to put in their position and they'd know what they had to do as much as the person who was injured/suspended/dropped. It's the same for all the best teams.

Merson is the complete opposite. He picks a different formation every week so they players don't know what their role is and they, and more importantly him have a ready made excuse.

Most manager look at the players available and pick the best formation to get the best out of them. Then when they rebuild the squad they have a couple of players in each position so there is cover all over the pitch. Then when they rebuild the team they bring in players that will fit that formation. Merson brings in players willy nill depending on who he thinks are ok regardless of what position they play and what position we need players to strengthen.

Footballers are thick and need to be treated as such. Keep the same formation, let them all concentrate on one position wherever possible and you won't go wrong.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:08 pm

Top post, MMF! You've convinced me. We need to stick with a team week-in, week-out.

How about we play 5-4-1 from now until the end of the season, then? :)

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:23 pm

mmf you say footballers are thick, just hope the Walsall players are reading this and know who you are---- :lol:

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:28 pm

WS1 wrote:mmf you say footballers are thick, just hope the Walsall players are reading this and know who you are---- :lol:


Hilarious. Bring them on. All I have to do is run 10 yards and they'll be too out of breath to keep up.

Most footballers aren't the brightest at this level, that's why they're playing here. The ones with intelligence are playing at the higher levels because they can absorb what the manager tells them and it improves their game and has done since they were taught from kids. The thick ones like Merson and Gazza stand out at the higher level because they have so much talent but waste it.

That's why Merson is clueless because he doesn't know what he wants to do himself so just confuses the players. Keep it simple and they can't get it wrong.

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One to watch!!!!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:31 pm

Having seen Alex Nicholls a few times the last few seasons it will not suprise me to see him get a first team start before the end of the season.

It may have been only been reserve/youth team games that he has played but he holds the ball up well, be it with his feet, chest and brings players in to the game, his first touch is a lot better than Matty Fryatt.

Nicholls and Bradley where the reason we won at Vale Park in the Midland Youth Cup last week.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:34 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
WS1 wrote:mmf you say footballers are thick, just hope the Walsall players are reading this and know who you are---- :lol:


Hilarious. Bring them on. All I have to do is run 10 yards and they'll be too out of breath to keep up.

Most footballers aren't the brightest at this level, that's why they're playing here. The ones with intelligence are playing at the higher levels because they can absorb what the manager tells them and it improves their game and has done since they were taught from kids. The thick ones like Merson and Gazza stand out at the higher level because they have so much talent but waste it.

That's why Merson is clueless because he doesn't know what he wants to do himself so just confuses the players. Keep it simple and they can't get it wrong.


Can see now why you are not a footballer earning lots of dosh :lol:

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:37 pm

What like the majority of ones at this level (who you're probably tag onto) who will earn little more than me for 10 years then have to suddenly think of a career at the end of it. They'll just be working in McDonalds but 10 yeears late.

Only the players from Championship and above make a decent living out of it because they work hard for it and have the talent.

I wasn't blessed with the talent but thankfully I have a brain which will serve me much better long term than to be able kick a ball for 10-15 years.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:51 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:But wfc do you not agree that being cautious but still conceding 2 goals is absolutely rubbish?

Merson just doesn't know what it takes to keep clean sheets, which ultimately win games. Forget Jorge and Roper's misses, you're just falling for Merson's spiel. If you keep clean sheets, you pick up points. If Merson can't get them organised and play a settled defence then that's his problem.

That's why Graydon was so rigid with his 4-4-2 formation. He picked the same defence wherever possible so all players know their role and don't have an excuse if things go wrong because every one of them knew their role. If someone was injured then he'd have a spare player to put in their position and they'd know what they had to do as much as the person who was injured/suspended/dropped. It's the same for all the best teams.

Merson is the complete opposite. He picks a different formation every week so they players don't know what their role is and they, and more importantly him have a ready made excuse.

Most manager look at the players available and pick the best formation to get the best out of them. Then when they rebuild the squad they have a couple of players in each position so there is cover all over the pitch. Then when they rebuild the team they bring in players that will fit that formation. Merson brings in players willy nill depending on who he thinks are ok regardless of what position they play and what position we need players to strengthen.

Footballers are thick and need to be treated as such. Keep the same formation, let them all concentrate on one position wherever possible and you won't go wrong.


MMF, you know very well from my failed Merson Out protests :) that I cannot stand the bloke and want him far away from our club but I just think you cannot criticise him after yesterday. As he said on the radio he told Ishy and Jorge to join Matty upfront on numerous occasions but they didnt. Re:Clean sheets, I agree that we should be trying to keep more clean sheets but yesterday's goals were poor and nothing you can teach in training could have prevented them.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:57 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:What like the majority of ones at this level (who you're probably tag onto) who will earn little more than me for 10 years then have to suddenly think of a career at the end of it. They'll just be working in McDonalds but 10 yeears late.

Only the players from Championship and above make a decent living out of it because they work hard for it and have the talent.

I wasn't blessed with the talent but thankfully I have a brain which will serve me much better long term than to be able kick a ball for 10-15 years.


I don't tag on to any of the players mmf, I'm a supporter through and through.

I do not have to slag them off when welose and I do not have to praise them up when we win.

I was proud to be a Walsall supporter who was there when we won at Highbury 2-1 in the League Cup and even though I was not very happy when we lost at Slough and I was there I was still proud to be a Walsall supporter, I just don't slag the club off because results are not going our way, End of Story. 8)

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:25 pm

Don't you think I've followed the club through many of those good and bad times WS1? It's a point you and all the other happy clappers fail to acknowledge because it doesn't suit your argument but I support the team as much as anyone at the games, then is the place to do it.

In fact I don't criticise the players much at all for their performances. My beef is with Merson and rightly so and I have full rights to criticise him because he deserves it. I don't criticise those that don't deserve it.

If you're happy to sit in your comfy little world while all is going wrong watching the club you support disappear into oblvion then that's up to you but because I'm a supporter and I want to see the club do well. It's called ambition.

Some people settle for their lot, some of us don't because they want better for themselves. It should be the same at WFC.

wfc2_uk - You're missing my point clearly. Under Graydon we got promoted with 14? wins away from home, many of which were 1-0. This was done through work on the training ground. Merson's teams don't keep clean sheets away from home. See?

Individual mistakes are made because each player doesn't know their job and are playing in a different position every week. If the team performs to it's ability and is organised they wouldn't need to dwell on individual mistakes because they'd be killing teams off before it mattered.

You are mistaken if you think these individual mistakes are coincidence. They wouldn't happen almost every week and cost us so many points if they were. It's because they players aren't physically and mentally prepared to pay for 90 minutes because the training and management isn't right.

I can highlight this with two examples. Someone on NMFE has said that if it wasn't for second halves we'd be 4th in the league. That tells me the players aren't as fit as others in the league and aren't organised to hold onto leads.

Example 2. Ian Poulter, the golfer was on Soccer am yesterday. He said he's had a poor season because he's not physically fit and has taken 9 weeks off to go to the gym to get himself fit to improve his game. Lovejoy or Hells Bells asked why it would effect his game as you only need to swing at a ball. He replied because if you're physically fit, you're mentally strong which is why he's making such an effort to get fit to improve his game.

The same goes for our players if they're physically fit they can run and compete for 90 minutes and it also means they're mentally fit so can concentrate harder so don't make silly mistakes like our players do so often which cost us points. That's why all the succesful teams are the hardest working because they're fitter all round.

That's why training is so important and why Merson will never make a good manager until he makes an effort to up training levels instead of finding the answer by changing formation every week.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:31 pm

So did it kick off between Walsall and wolves then yesterday what happened ?

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:34 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:Don't you think I've followed the club through many of those good and bad times WS1? It's a point you and all the other happy clappers fail to acknowledge because it doesn't suit your argument but I support the team as much as anyone at the games, then is the place to do it.

In fact I don't criticise the players much at all for their performances. My beef is with Merson and rightly so and I have full rights to criticise him because he deserves it. I don't criticise those that don't deserve it.

If you're happy to sit in your comfy little world while all is going wrong watching the club you support disappear into oblvion then that's up to you but because I'm a supporter and I want to see the club do well. It's called ambition.

Some people settle for their lot, some of us don't because they want better for themselves. It should be the same at WFC.

Don't class me has an "happy Clapper" I have my own views which I keep to my self and that is End of Story.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:35 pm

Fair enough but this is a public forum where you can post your opinion so don't have a go at me for stating mine.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:38 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:Don't you think I've followed the club through many of those good and bad times WS1? It's a point you and all the other happy clappers fail to acknowledge because it doesn't suit your argument but I support the team as much as anyone at the games, then is the place to do it.

In fact I don't criticise the players much at all for their performances. My beef is with Merson and rightly so and I have full rights to criticise him because he deserves it. I don't criticise those that don't deserve it.

If you're happy to sit in your comfy little world while all is going wrong watching the club you support disappear into oblvion then that's up to you but because I'm a supporter and I want to see the club do well. It's called ambition.

Some people settle for their lot, some of us don't because they want better for themselves. It should be the same at WFC.

wfc2_uk - You're missing my point clearly. Under Graydon we got promoted with 14? wins away from home, many of which were 1-0. This was done through work on the training ground. Merson's teams don't keep clean sheets away from home. See?

Individual mistakes are made because each player doesn't know their job and are playing in a different position every week. If the team performs to it's ability and is organised they wouldn't need to dwell on individual mistakes because they'd be killing teams off before it mattered.

You are mistaken if you think these individual mistakes are coincidence. They wouldn't happen almost every week and cost us so many points if they were. It's because they players aren't physically and mentally prepared to pay for 90 minutes because the training and management isn't right.

I can highlight this with two examples. Someone on NMFE has said that if it wasn't for second halves we'd be 4th in the league. That tells me the players aren't as fit as others in the league and aren't organised to hold onto leads.

Example 2. Ian Poulter, the golfer was on Soccer am yesterday. He said he's had a poor season because he's not physically fit and has taken 9 weeks off to go to the gym to get himself fit to improve his game. Lovejoy or Hells Bells asked why it would effect his game as you only need to swing at a ball. He replied because if you're physically fit, you're mentally strong which is why he's making such an effort to get fit to improve his game.

The same goes for our players if they're physically fit they can run and compete for 90 minutes and it also means they're mentally fit so can concentrate harder so don't make silly mistakes like our players do so often which cost us points. That's why all the succesful teams are the hardest working because they're fitter all round.

That's why training is so important and why Merson will never make a good manager until he makes an effort to up training levels instead of finding the answer by changing formation every week.


MMF I agree with you!! I just dont agree with what people are saying about yesterdays performance. We wont go up, we wont string more than 3 wins together and we wont have a great all round performance under Merse.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:47 pm

You're not agreeing with me then because the above relates to yesterday also! We weren't unlucky we got what we deserved because the manager picked players to play out of position all over the pitch. Doesn't matter how close we came or how well we played it means nothing.

Lots of games under Graydon we didn't deserve to win but did so because we could defend, that's what it's all about. Those mistakes would not have been made yesterday under Graydon, or Nicholl, or Lee had it been at this level so Merson can be blamed for yesterday. :wink:

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:03 pm

I'd resolved not to go again until Cockney Forrest Gump is ejected from the premises, but relented and went to MK. What I saw was pretty much what I expected - perfectly competent and talented players in want of guidance, strategy and tactics. The 17 central defenders all played pretty well, Jorge tried hard, Fryatt couldn't be expected to do much with a series of futile high balls banged towards him as he laboured upfront alone. The substitution beggared belief - why take off our centre forward (playing, admittedly, on the wing) and replace him with a lightweight, inexperienced winger, when we already have one of those on the pitch?

Mersoln is a liability and we'll go nowhere with him. get rid.

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Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:09 pm

sj wrote:Yes I can joe 90. 50 pis*ed up fans came down on the coach. And something happened in a pub with two Wolves fans.

I was with my two boys and I am tonight ashamed to be a Saddler.

Sad toss*rs :evil: :evil:


sj, you are so right about the fans. Did you see the pissed-up morons at the front, the guy in the red hat and his mate in the blue coat, who were going ballistic when McLeod scored his goal and winked at our fans? They were bellowing at stewards, demanding some unspecified punishment because McLeod had "wound them up" - the only reason that they were wound up was because they are cretins and they had copious pints of lager in their bulging bellies. Ashamed indeed.

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Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:42 am

Christ Ian and sj, they've always been like that in the F2Go! It's part of the reason I go there. Sometimes it's more fun than watching the game! The comments there are superb, absolutely hilarious. :lol:
Actually I bellow alot at the ref, players etc but I haven't got a beer gut and I don't drink lager, so count me among those cretins if you choose. :wink:

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Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:48 am

MMF - not all footballers are thick, far from it. Didn't Jorge postpone his University studies to join the Saddlers? Look at Peter Hart, Don Goodman, Graydon, Nichol and a raft of other intellectuals.

They may find ordinary jobs after their career is over but they'll do it with a minimum of 300,000 in the bank, a good selection of mates and memories and be in good physical shape. Anyone would be a pro-footballer, it's a dream job. 8)

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Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:11 am

wfc_2uk wrote:As he said on the radio he told Ishy and Jorge to join Matty upfront on numerous occasions but they didnt. Re:Clean sheets, I agree that we should be trying to keep more clean sheets but yesterday's goals were poor and nothing you can teach in training could have prevented them.


That's another poor decision anyway, wfc. Telllng a 17 year old to "join Matty up front" after a week in which he had two 4 and a half hour flights and made his debut for England, after looking knackered last weekend, it just wasn't going to happen.

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Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:38 am

SaigonSaddler wrote:MMF - not all footballers are thick, far from it. Didn't Jorge postpone his University studies to join the Saddlers? 8)


Sounds like a thick decision to me! :)

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